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Post by chris123 on May 29, 2021 14:29:09 GMT
I'm trying to import a Music DB back up which I have on a USB drive onto the X50. Normally I would go to SETUP > MusicDB and listed under this menu would be the options to Back up and Restore. However the X50 I'm trying to do this on doesn't list these options under the Music DB? I'm running firmware X50_CA-1.0.0.r1676 Has backup / restore option been moved somewhere else? Any help would be appreciated.
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Post by bertiebacon on May 29, 2021 21:19:28 GMT
Hi chris123. It would seem that the new firmware r1676 implements a new music database system. I'm not exactly 100% sure on the details of this, as the only useful information I could find is on the German Forum, and Google translate did the best it could. However it looks like it is the same database system as used on the N25 network audio player (which does not have internal storage). This would seem to work like any normal music player, by just scanning the metadata in the files and sorting it into categories to display. If I have understood this correctly, then there isn't a special database system that needs to be created on a hard drive or backed up to a hard drive, therefore no options to back up or restore the database. The information for the new music database is here (in German) www.cocktailaudio.de/files/downloads/NeuesMusikDatenbanksystem.pdfI downloaded the pdf and used google translate translate.google.com/ (select documents) to convert to English. |
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Post by chris123 on May 30, 2021 9:53:53 GMT
Hi Bertiebacon, Thanks as ever for coming back to me, I was hoping you might pick up the query. Thanks also for taking the time to search for something on this, I couldn't find anything. I went to the site you highlighted in your post and did like you did and used google translate to try and make sense of the document. As you say cocktail audio seem to have changed the way the DB operates. It's difficult to understand the translated version and I'm no further forward in knowing if or how to upload a database into this new system. They seem to set out reasons why they have changed the way the database operates in the article, but because of the translation it's difficult to fathom. There was a sense of security in being able to back up and reload the database, I'll reserve judgement on the new system until I find out how it works, but the old adage of it's not broken don't fix it comes to mind. Why can't Cocktail Audi / Novafidelity at least put something up on an English Forum to explain how the new system operates? I guess in time others will start to come across this issue when they "upgrade". I wonder if it's possible to downgrade the firmware for an earlier version which had the backup / restore function? Basically stuck at the moment.
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Post by bertiebacon on May 30, 2021 21:24:20 GMT
Hi chris123. Yes the translation isn't great, but you can get a rough idea of the changes. The Italian and German forum's seem to test the beta versions of the firmware and get the newest official release first. As far as I'm aware there isn't an English forum with actual admin support, except for a small section on the German forum, so I don't know where an English explanation of the new firmware would come from.
I don't know what the database on the last firmware looked like as I only had an X10 and that went to silicon heaven (along with all the little calculators) a long time ago. I do remember that the X10 used to write sequential number prefixes in square brackets, in front of the album folder names, and it must have used these as part of the database. I believe that it was this method, of part database in memory and part written to the actual music folder/filenames that caused a lot of conflicts and subsequent crashes.
As I understand it, with the new firmware, you add the locations of your music folders, whether they are on an internal HDD, external USB drive or on a network share from a P.C. or NAS, and then they are all indexed into the X50's database which is then just held in memory.
As the database is no longer held on the hard drive and the music folders and files do not form part of the database itself. then it would seem that you could just copy music folders/files to a main folder on the X50 and then index them. I would assume that you could also use an external program to edit or back up the music files as well.
Granted that this is all a bit of theorizing and extrapolation, but as long as you have some kind of back up from the X50 then you are never stuck as all the music files are on there.
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Post by chris123 on May 31, 2021 18:45:31 GMT
Hi Bertiebacon, thanks as ever for your response. I think you picked up a bit more about the canges than I was able to on the German forum, I've still not got any further with it. I think my next option will be to see after the bank holiday if I can get any info from SVC the distributors in the UK. Will be intersting to see how helpful they are. In the past I have posted on the German site and get some useful information, so I'll maybe try that as well. I'm pretty old skool when it comes to hifi equipment, but succumbed to the charms of Novafidelty, alas as you say UK support though isn't as good as our German friends have, which is a pity.
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Post by chris123 on Jun 15, 2021 16:24:48 GMT
Just thought I would update this thread in case anyone is interested. (I think) I have managed to upload the database onto the machine as it seemed to upload the data from the external drive in the usual way, but at the moment I can't work out how to actually see the Music DB on the machine, if indeed it is on there. It still only shows the original album the machine had on it in the Music DB. As per the information on this thread the way the database works with this new firmware is different from how it worked previously, there is no backup / restore option in the menus. Also the new firmware doesn't support the web interface, as this has been dropped by Novafidelity. Why I don't know as for me that was a very useful feature, so as things stand you can only control the machine via the remote. It seems they are bringing out out an app for this firmware later in the year.
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Post by bertiebacon on Jun 18, 2021 16:50:57 GMT
Hi chris123. If you are still struggling with the new firmware, then I would start by ripping a C.D. and seeing where that album is saved. Using the browser menu, check in the internal hard drive, I think it's labeled HDD1. From what I've read the firmware creates a default folder called "My Music" which it automatically scans for metadata. I would expect to find the album in there. As the new firmware is based on the N25 firmware, then I would read the N25 manual, section 5. "What is the Music database (Music DB) and how to make it." cocktailaudio.com/home/data/manual/N25%20User%20manual_English_ver1.1.pdf |
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Post by chris123 on Jun 26, 2021 7:16:02 GMT
Hi Bertiebacon, thanks as ever for coming back to me with helpful advice. An update; it transpired there was a problem with the r1676 firmware which was the cause of the problem. The guy at SCV Distribution went back to the manufacturers in Korea and they updated the firmware and once I'd installed the new firmware version I was able to transfer the music DB onto the machine. Still a few teething problems with displaying artwork, but I'm hoping I'll get these sorted. It would seem that transfering databases wasn't fully tested during initial r1676 firmware development. The new way the Music DB operates is being rolled out across other Novafidelity machines besides the X50, but as I understand it existing machines won't be affected and will continue to operate with the old style DB. An app is due for release in Q3 this year, the new machines don't support the web interface. Thanks as ever Bertiebacon for the help. I'd also like to say how incredibly helpful the guys at SCV Distribution have been, they are absolutely brilliant.
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Post by bertiebacon on Jun 26, 2021 18:50:21 GMT
Hi chris 123. I'm glad that you've managed to sort things out, well mostly. I did notice that they have updated the firmware to R1681 to address a few issues, although as you've said this version also has a few problems. As the newer style firmware changes the way a lot of things are done, from everything that I've read, you are now free to copy and edit your files with external program's and then just rescan the metadata for the changes, which also happens when you turn the unit on. Assuming that you have a P.C.? and can access the X50's "My Music" folder as a network share? This opens up a whole host of excellent free program's that can be used for editing the metadata, adding artwork and now of course, backing up the music files. The downside to this however, is that there will be a learning cure involved in choosing, setting up and using these program's. I'll start the ball rolling, as the obvious choice for editing metadata tags is, the excellent mp3tag. It is full of features, which you may not need just yet, but the layout is superb and there are tagging options from the freedb, MusicBrainz and Discogs (you have to make a free account for Discogs) Discogs also adds the cover art too. If you fancy giving it a go, copy a few albums to a folder on the P.C. and use them to test it out. www.mp3tag.de/en/As for backing up, I'm looking at a few free program's at the moment, if you are interested, I'll post a few suggestions. |
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Post by trashed on Jun 27, 2021 11:58:18 GMT
Update has been rolled out to X14 now. With MusicDB gone my Sonos equipment can no longer find the shared source. In the Sonos app the music library address was \\X14\MusicDB Anyone been able to connect to Sonos since the new firmware?
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Post by bertiebacon on Jun 27, 2021 14:15:13 GMT
From what I've read, the new firmware creates a default folder called "My Music" which is automatically scanned for metadata, and it moves all of the files into there. If you could check and confirm this, using the x14's browser menu? If that is the case, then the network path is likely to be: \\X14\My Music
If you have a P.C. then you could check if the network shared folder shows up in explorer. If it doesn't, then try selecting "network" from the left pane, click in the address bar at the top of the page and enter: \\X14
If that works, then the shared folder should show up, double click on that and then click on the address bar once again. This should show you the full address of the network shard folder.
As always, with network related stuff, you may need to reboot the X14, Sonos device and router if the network share doesn't show up.
The X14 may need some time to index the files into the new database so it could be a while before all of your albums are displayed.
Hope this helps.
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Post by trashed on Jun 27, 2021 16:21:01 GMT
You're a legend. I would never have figured that out without your help.
If it helps anyone else the address that now works in the Sonos app for the Music Library setup is: \\x14\LocalStorages\HDD1\My Music
The X14 is a brilliant bit of kit on it's own but fantastic to have it hooked back up to the Sonos speakers. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
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Post by bertiebacon on Jun 27, 2021 21:02:05 GMT
Thank you, trashed. I'm glad that you've got it figured out. And thank you for posting the full network path, as this confirms where the music files actually are, after updating to the new firmware.
I'm guessing that the longer network path, specifying \LocalStorages\HDD1\ is due to the fact that you can now index folders that are in different physical locations. Like a network share from a P.C. or NAS.
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Post by chris123 on Jun 30, 2021 21:29:57 GMT
Hi Bertiebacon, quite a bit to try and get up to speed on in your postings, thanks for posting the suggestions. I've not done networking sharing before, so that's the first thing I need to try and do before I can follow up with the other things you suggest, it will take me a while to learn. In response to some other points yes the X50 does create a file called My Music which indexes the music as you suggest. Also as you suggest, you can I'm assured, index folders that are in different physical locations which is one of the reason given for the change in the MusicDB. A lot to get up to speed with.
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Post by chris123 on Jul 3, 2021 17:35:22 GMT
Just to add something else to this thread about the art work with the new MusicDB firmware. It does appear that at present you can't view the artwork attached to albums in the MusicDB, although the artwork does appear when the album is selected for playing. Hopefully something that will be fixed in a firmware update.
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